onigame ([info]onigame) wrote,
@ 2007-03-31 00:37:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
WPC-style puzzles in the U.S.
Talking with [info]motris at the World Sudoku Championship (and talking with [info]tigupine  before that) , we think that there may be an opportunity to have some sort of Nikoli-like puzzle club, with a periodical publication, for constraint-satisfaction puzzles such as seen in the World Puzzle Championship. I'm thinking of perhaps using the webcomic paradigm -- one puzzle released every day as a graphic image, then planning for a paper publication if it gets popular enough.

Pay the puzzle designers some amount of money based on "circulation" (unique visitors to the site, or whatever metric we can dream up).

The important thing here is that we want hand-made puzzles, not brainless sudoku cranks.  Each puzzle will receive author's credit.  The goal is not to make money, but to really build a puzzle community in the US, with designers and puzzlers.

But for such a project to really get off the ground, we need some designers.  [info]motris and I designed a puzzle last night, but it will probably be boring with just the two of us.  So, go ahead and drop me a line if you're interested in making puzzles like these -- we'll be contacting you sometime this summer, after my current puzzle project is finished.



(Post a new comment)

Jargon alert!
(Anonymous)
2007-03-31 08:01 pm UTC (link)
I guess I'm not down with the hip puzzle lingo of the kids these days. What's Nikoli? I'm familiar with the WPC, but what exactly do you mean by "constraint satisfaction puzzles"? That term would seem applicable to, well, ALL puzzles.

- Peter Sarrett

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Jargon alert!
(Anonymous)
2007-03-31 11:28 pm UTC (link)
Answered my own question about Nikoli-- when will I learn to check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikoli) first?-- but still curious about what differentiates a "constraint satisfaction puzzle" from other puzzles.

- Peter

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Jargon alert!
[info]zotmeister
2007-04-06 08:18 pm UTC (link)
I'm surprised no one else tackled this; I'll give it a stab:

"Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains - however improbable - must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes

The short version: it's a constraint-satisfaction puzzle if that's how you solve it.

The long version: Any puzzle that has at least one solution and at least one non-solution can clearly be said to have a constraint, as something has to distinguish between the two. In that sense, yes, it would seem that the term 'constraint satisfaction' would be nearly universal for all puzzles, but I believe what the term refers to is the manner in which solution states can be derived, namely piecemeal logical deduction.

Take, for example... oh, I don't know... how about a Sudoku puzzle? Yeah, that'll do nicely. Oh look - there's one right there above left. ;) One doesn't look at an unsolved Sudoku for a few minutes, then get a sudden "AHA!" reaction and fill in the solution all at once [although Wei-Hwa and/or Tom might be able to make a proposition bet out of it and scam some tavern goers out of their cash]. Rather, the logical rules are applied iteratively as needed, solving it cell by cell: "The top-center region must contain a four, which cannot be in a row or column with another four, so the solution must have a four in the center-left cell of that region..."

You can think of it in terms of possibilities being reduced. For each empty cell in a Sudoku grid, there are potentially nine values to be placed within. Nine to the fifty-eighth power is... well, a fifty-six-digit number. That's a lot of possibilities to try to absorb all at once! Thankfully, we clever human beings can reduce that quantity quite quickly, by discarding entire categories of possibilities all at once upon recognizing they cannot fit the constraints. In making just that first aforementioned step in solving that Sudoku puzzle, one could be said to make over nineteen septendecillion correct decisions. I happen to think that that's rather impressive!

It may actually be easier to describe what isn't a constraint satisfaction puzzle. Riddles and trivia questions certainly aren't, as they are entirely dependent upon knowledge and/or intuition and not any process of applying constraints; sliding-block and other mechanical puzzles rarely are, as they are solved algorithmically (yes, even by people), explorationally, haphazardly, or even serendipitously, but not deductively; one could argue a crossword is constraint satisfaction, but the answering of clues definitely isn't. The creation of a crossword is pretty close, especially if you have a pre-determined word list to use; the solving of a fill-in or skeleton puzzle is constraint satisfaction: "Of the three five-letter terms remaining, only two end with 'S', and only one of those two has an initial that can be the final letter of a seven-letter term, so 'TEXAS' goes here..."

I perhaps oversimplified, but I hope that gets the gist of it at least. - ZM

(Reply to this) (Parent)

About bloody time!
[info]zotmeister
2007-04-03 05:24 pm UTC (link)
This is precisely the sort of thing I've been waiting for - a logic-puzzle version of the National Puzzlers' League. I knew it had to be started up by established masters, which you and Tom clearly are. I'm certain you'll get quite the following.

I would be honored to be a charter member. I offer the following as my résumé:

http://zotmeister.livejournal.com/tag/puzzles

As my method of publication perhaps implies, I am far more interested in the social expansion of the puzzle culture than I am payment, although I must admit that the prospect of receiving even any compensation for my hobby would be most welcome. As far as I know, I'm the first to use LiveJournal as a puzzle publication medium on a regular basis; I seem to have spawned inspired at least two imitators compatriots. I also note that I am not in the slightest applying for position of graphical designer.

Assuming I haven't completely creeped you out by now :), I'll be looking forward to hearing from you this summer. - ZM

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: About bloody time!
[info]glmathgrant
2007-04-08 08:06 pm UTC (link)
Okay, I didn't think I'd ever really use LiveJournal again, but I feel compelled to after being shown this link. Who exactly is this other imitator besides me of whom you speak, Master of Zot? :)

Also, I might be interested in this venture. . . we shall see. Getting money sounds like pretty good incentive. This kind of community is in desperate need of being existent. I had a weird idea myself, once; it was a deviantART-style website, where you can submit puzzles, and people can print them out or solve them interactively. They can even rate puzzles, mark them as favorites, leave feedback, etc. Some method of exchanging money would be nice, too. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]zotmeister
2007-04-18 05:26 pm UTC (link)
Who exactly is this other...

That would be [info]jakarias, who told me my blog directly inspired his, just like you did.

Full disclosure: my comment was not intended to be a remark on the quality - positive or negative - of the actual content of the other blogs, only that I was cited as inspiration. Others can make their own judgments on puzzle quality on their blogs as well as mine. - ZM

(Reply to this) (Parent)

fledgling puzzle community
(Anonymous)
2007-04-03 05:39 pm UTC (link)
I'm in. I've long considered what it might take to build such a community; now we get to see.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you this summer!

mike rios.

(Reply to this)


[info]motris
2007-04-03 10:37 pm UTC (link)
While a lot of my time since getting back from Prague has been spent responding to press inquiries about the sudoku championship, most of my intellectual time has been focused on the possibilities of the venture Wei-Hwa and I discussed while in Prague. We both clearly share a desire to create a forum where talented designers can publish their work when traditional publication sources would pass, a place where solvers can consistently find creative puzzles that are not really available in any domestic source.

The kind of venture we are describing will certainly address one of my major desires of the last year - namely finding an outlet with real prospects of growing an audience for the puzzles I put together. motris.livejournal.com is what it is, but I know my page views. I certainly found zotmeister to be a good model when I chose livejournal as my posting site, but a broader community is really needed and I hope we can build a resource for logic puzzle solvers in America. My lingering excitement from the championship is much more from this venture (and the joy of co-developing a puzzle with Wei-Hwa while there) than from taking home the crown (although that was very nice too). I look forward to getting out to the Bay Area soon and starting up this project, whatever name we end up giving it.

(Reply to this)


[info]canadianpuzzler
2007-04-05 12:13 am UTC (link)
I've already responded to Wei-Hwa privately through other means, but I should also sign in here as well. So I'm doing so.

Craig Kasper

(Reply to this)

Me me
[info]lukepebody
2007-04-06 06:04 pm UTC (link)
I would definitely be interest.

Luke

(Reply to this)


[info]dreamguy
2007-04-28 07:54 am UTC (link)
Count me in also.

(Reply to this)


[info]devjoe
2007-06-16 09:09 pm UTC (link)
I don't construct much, but Craig is encouraging me to post here. I'm certainly capable and maybe I'll learn something too.

(Reply to this)

Продаю сертификаты Вебмани.
(Anonymous)
2007-10-04 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Привет.
Продаю персональный сертификат WebMoney за $99.
Можете проверить: WMID 322973398779 Redfern
Всё чисто, не одной жалоб. Сделан на утерянные документы. Всё законно.
Если нужно, то есть сертификаты ещё.
Стучацо в личную почту на Вебмани.

Это не спам. Не пишите на мой WMID жалобы в арбитраж Вебмани.

(Reply to this)

Online payday loans entertain supporter 10 points for first answer?
(Anonymous)
2008-06-10 04:29 pm UTC (link)
im reasoning of applying for an online payday lend but theres so innumerable locale's which is the most appropriate locale to get a credit i dont wanna get ripped off!! any suggestions? divert add links
hold responsible you :)
http://marialbigblog.info

(Reply to this)


Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…